Well worth the watch. You are a great help to a struggling agnostic looking for answers in an increasingly complex world of philosophies. I had a quick question for you if you don't mind. One of the largest appeals to Catholicism I have seen is the alleged miracles associated with it. Marian, Eucharistic, exorcisms, etc. As a pagan, what do you make of these? How would you advise someone such as myself looking into them?
Thank you! Glad I can help. As to miracles, there are claims of such for every religion in the world. For example, many Christians point to the supposed ressurection as proof of Christianity, yet Jesus was nowhere near the first man/god who is claimed to have been ressurected, or to have visited the underworld and returned. Why beleive that one and not the others? In my opinion, if one buys into Christian miracles, then one must also buy into the far more numerous pagan ones—causing neither side to "gain ground" in an arguement based on the supernatural
Yes, I fully agree! However, there are two differences from my study:
1. The miracle of Jesus in the resurrection is one of the first to truly transform the world religiously speaking. However, I am aware this may have been more due to violence than anything.
2. When it comes to the resurrection, I am pretty agnostic on that miracle. At the very least it is dubious from my knowledge. However, take for example the various Marian miracles. Or healings of the saints. Or eucharistic transformations. From my knowledge these are rather common, recent, well-attested (some in the millions or hundreds of thousands, for instance Our Lady of Zeitoun) and difficult to explain away naturalistically. I had the thought that possibly these could be pagan gods? Possibly? What could be going on here? My apologies for extending the question! Also, one more piece, which numerous pagan ones? Are there a lot of well-attested ones in the same realm as the Christian/classical theist Catholic ones?
Every pagan hero was said to have been descended from a God, including Alexander the Great, and their stories are filled with the supernatural. For example, frequent communication with ghosts, prophecies of the future, and interactions with gods, like Venus' healing of Aeneas. We also have historical examples, like hearing a god shout commands during a battle, etc. The ancient world was filled with the miraculous, and a key component of early Christianity was attempting to discount these other accounts as false and only theirs as real. This, to me, seems unreasonable. As to the actual reality of these things, I cannot speak with certainty, but it is certainly true that supernatural events are attested to in every age, under all religions, and amoung all peoples. Whether you beleive them or not, I don't think it makes sense to beleive only attested supernatural events which fall under one branch of one religion
Well, how must we interpret those miracles of opposing religions (such as Catholicism) in that case? Would not the appearance of Mary to thousands be a sign that pushes more to the objective truth of it as opposed to paganism? I could be wrong! That is what seems to puzzle me though. Furthermore, I fully agree on your point about ancient stories. Quick question though, why has that not continued to the present age? Has it been suppressed? Why have these miracles ceased? This kind of feeds into my previous question a little, because at this point the only religions claiming objectively verifiable miracles (such as mentioned before, the Catholic/Marian/Saintly miracles (Saint Charbel's healings for instance) with millions of people attesting to them) are the Abrahamic theists. Now, this doesn't verify them, but what does that say for their objective truths they claim to teach? As for early Christianity, yes I agree. Also, we know so little compared to now that either way it's impossible to truly verify. (As a side note, please don't feel a need to reply if I am bothering. I am merely curious but do not wish to be an inconvenience.)
I think that the supernatural, whether real or a psychological phenomena, would naturally only occur among those receptive. Since many people are Christian, most miracles will be Christian, and the non religious will be likely to attribute every day miracles (a voice told me to move right before a car hit me) to a generic "God." Although, in Asia, I'm sure there are Hindu, Buddhist, and Shinto miracles too, even if they're religions are less focused on the idea of miracles. Further, amoung those who still believe in the old gods, the gods are still present, and they have continued to appear to people, even those who aren't pagan—Carl Jung, for example, or other mystics. Even someone like Whatifalthist (not sure if you know his channel haha), says that Odin spoke to him as a child
I was at my friend's Catholic baptism the other day, and it was truly unbearable. The room was hot, and I felt that I could hardly bear it any longer. I prayed to Jove, and just then a rumbling began in the microphone which hounded like thunder. It grew louder and louder until it was a roar, and they had to disconnect the sound system. I took this as a sign from Jove, but my friend said it was Satan trying to stop his conversion. Miracles, apparitions, etc. are subject to interpretation. Among Catholics in South America, I've heard instances of "Mother Mary" appearing, but in the "form" of an older pagan goddess
A further note I wanted to make is that your answers have helped a lot so far, I hope my further questions have not seemed to say the opposite. I’ve been all over the religious spectrum and my agnosticism grows old. I want something to place my identity in, if such a thing exists. And if it doesn’t, I want to know that as well. So, thank you again.
First of all, this is a great response, but does that mean the miracles of the Gods are formed by subjective beliefs? The reason I ask is because many of those miracles are rather strongly specific to Catholic teachings. They appear with many objectively Catholic meanings attached or inherent to them at least. At least, with much more "mass verifiability" than many others. For instance, take the Shroud of Turin (a topic I have studied recently and plan to study more later). I was unaware the old gods were still present. I have never heard any direct accounts of it! I looked up his channel LOL, I'll watch some of his material.
I'm quite intrigued by your experience, did you experience any relief from the heat? Also, I have not heard such of such appearances up to this point, I will need to do further research in this matter. I honestly think at some point you should do a general video on this topic if you haven't already! Might add more evidence FOR paganism, especially for people such as myself.
Well worth the watch. You are a great help to a struggling agnostic looking for answers in an increasingly complex world of philosophies. I had a quick question for you if you don't mind. One of the largest appeals to Catholicism I have seen is the alleged miracles associated with it. Marian, Eucharistic, exorcisms, etc. As a pagan, what do you make of these? How would you advise someone such as myself looking into them?
Thank you! Glad I can help. As to miracles, there are claims of such for every religion in the world. For example, many Christians point to the supposed ressurection as proof of Christianity, yet Jesus was nowhere near the first man/god who is claimed to have been ressurected, or to have visited the underworld and returned. Why beleive that one and not the others? In my opinion, if one buys into Christian miracles, then one must also buy into the far more numerous pagan ones—causing neither side to "gain ground" in an arguement based on the supernatural
Yes, I fully agree! However, there are two differences from my study:
1. The miracle of Jesus in the resurrection is one of the first to truly transform the world religiously speaking. However, I am aware this may have been more due to violence than anything.
2. When it comes to the resurrection, I am pretty agnostic on that miracle. At the very least it is dubious from my knowledge. However, take for example the various Marian miracles. Or healings of the saints. Or eucharistic transformations. From my knowledge these are rather common, recent, well-attested (some in the millions or hundreds of thousands, for instance Our Lady of Zeitoun) and difficult to explain away naturalistically. I had the thought that possibly these could be pagan gods? Possibly? What could be going on here? My apologies for extending the question! Also, one more piece, which numerous pagan ones? Are there a lot of well-attested ones in the same realm as the Christian/classical theist Catholic ones?
Every pagan hero was said to have been descended from a God, including Alexander the Great, and their stories are filled with the supernatural. For example, frequent communication with ghosts, prophecies of the future, and interactions with gods, like Venus' healing of Aeneas. We also have historical examples, like hearing a god shout commands during a battle, etc. The ancient world was filled with the miraculous, and a key component of early Christianity was attempting to discount these other accounts as false and only theirs as real. This, to me, seems unreasonable. As to the actual reality of these things, I cannot speak with certainty, but it is certainly true that supernatural events are attested to in every age, under all religions, and amoung all peoples. Whether you beleive them or not, I don't think it makes sense to beleive only attested supernatural events which fall under one branch of one religion
Well, how must we interpret those miracles of opposing religions (such as Catholicism) in that case? Would not the appearance of Mary to thousands be a sign that pushes more to the objective truth of it as opposed to paganism? I could be wrong! That is what seems to puzzle me though. Furthermore, I fully agree on your point about ancient stories. Quick question though, why has that not continued to the present age? Has it been suppressed? Why have these miracles ceased? This kind of feeds into my previous question a little, because at this point the only religions claiming objectively verifiable miracles (such as mentioned before, the Catholic/Marian/Saintly miracles (Saint Charbel's healings for instance) with millions of people attesting to them) are the Abrahamic theists. Now, this doesn't verify them, but what does that say for their objective truths they claim to teach? As for early Christianity, yes I agree. Also, we know so little compared to now that either way it's impossible to truly verify. (As a side note, please don't feel a need to reply if I am bothering. I am merely curious but do not wish to be an inconvenience.)
I think that the supernatural, whether real or a psychological phenomena, would naturally only occur among those receptive. Since many people are Christian, most miracles will be Christian, and the non religious will be likely to attribute every day miracles (a voice told me to move right before a car hit me) to a generic "God." Although, in Asia, I'm sure there are Hindu, Buddhist, and Shinto miracles too, even if they're religions are less focused on the idea of miracles. Further, amoung those who still believe in the old gods, the gods are still present, and they have continued to appear to people, even those who aren't pagan—Carl Jung, for example, or other mystics. Even someone like Whatifalthist (not sure if you know his channel haha), says that Odin spoke to him as a child
I was at my friend's Catholic baptism the other day, and it was truly unbearable. The room was hot, and I felt that I could hardly bear it any longer. I prayed to Jove, and just then a rumbling began in the microphone which hounded like thunder. It grew louder and louder until it was a roar, and they had to disconnect the sound system. I took this as a sign from Jove, but my friend said it was Satan trying to stop his conversion. Miracles, apparitions, etc. are subject to interpretation. Among Catholics in South America, I've heard instances of "Mother Mary" appearing, but in the "form" of an older pagan goddess
A further note I wanted to make is that your answers have helped a lot so far, I hope my further questions have not seemed to say the opposite. I’ve been all over the religious spectrum and my agnosticism grows old. I want something to place my identity in, if such a thing exists. And if it doesn’t, I want to know that as well. So, thank you again.
First of all, this is a great response, but does that mean the miracles of the Gods are formed by subjective beliefs? The reason I ask is because many of those miracles are rather strongly specific to Catholic teachings. They appear with many objectively Catholic meanings attached or inherent to them at least. At least, with much more "mass verifiability" than many others. For instance, take the Shroud of Turin (a topic I have studied recently and plan to study more later). I was unaware the old gods were still present. I have never heard any direct accounts of it! I looked up his channel LOL, I'll watch some of his material.
I'm quite intrigued by your experience, did you experience any relief from the heat? Also, I have not heard such of such appearances up to this point, I will need to do further research in this matter. I honestly think at some point you should do a general video on this topic if you haven't already! Might add more evidence FOR paganism, especially for people such as myself.
The fire rises. 🔥 Our pagan revival draws near! 💪🏻